Projet 4500 Reliability and Service?

[Kortehgehn]

Hello, I’m trying to find any other owners who have been having print issues with the ProJet 4500. Lately we have been having problems with overflow on close to full height prints. There is so little information and documentation out there and the printer is so new and rare that it’s hard to find anyone else that has one. This is the third time we have had an overflow issue on the build bed and I am not sure of the cause. The last time we had an issue the whole fast axis had to be replaced along with the huge controller module, and all of that they said was due to a missing firmware update.

Anyone out there using one of these? Any advice? It’s getting super expensive just to maintain this one and keep it operational now that it is out of warranty.

Thanks,

~Edward

[LayerMade_1]

My question is why are you posting this here instead of speaking with 3d systems. I don’t think this list has any type of access to the machine that anyone else has. Best bet get with 3d and they have all the answers. Now if this was a small printer then I would respond differently

[3DOriginals]

Hello, What is the problem exactly?

[Additive3D]

Hi Edward,
We are a French company and our listings have a 4500 Projet with which we hugely problems. We believe that the machine has a design flaw but 3d Systems does not want to admit.
This makes 1 year we are fighting with our distributor. We have lost over 50% of our turnover.
We contacted a New York law firm that advises us to gather evidence with the correspondence with resellers and 3D Systems to open a case against 3D Systems.
Where are you?

Gilles
gilles@additive-3d.fr

[3DOriginals]

I own a 660 and when the software tells me to add material for a full build i empty the overflow first.

[Accucode3D]

Why wouldn’t you spend $5000 and get the 1 year extended parts warranty? Where are you located? I may be able to find a local technician that can help. I’m a 3D Systems dealer and cover 8 states.

[LayerMade_1]

Why would you purchase the extended warranty and the service contract. These machines are not easy to work on or diagnos without the tools supplied by 3d systems. Best bet is for you to purchase a service contract and get it fixed thru 3d and not a 3rd party technician.

[Kortehgehn]

It’s strange, we’ve had the overflow clog for that reason before. Lately what happens is that the overflow stays clear but the core material builds up to the side of the build platform and overflow and eventually touches the print head.

[Kortehgehn]

3D systems has not been much help to us, the resources available for the 4500 are limited and when we do have a service technician out to service our 4500 it seems to be expensive guess and check more than anything else. I was just hoping to get in touch with other 4500 owners to see if they were having similar problems and perhaps had some ideas.

[Kortehgehn]

We are in the New England area, that is a better price then we have been quoted. We were told that it would be 10,000 for an extended service contract and that the printer would have to be looked at first with a series of test builds that would be sent to 3D Systems before they could extend the warranty.

[Kortehgehn]

I completely agree with the idea that there is a design flaw with this printer, I feel like we have a prototype. We have had so many issues and for the price tag it seems like it was not tested sufficiently before being pushed to market. In the first year we have had 3 major service requests within the first year of owning this printer. The first service issue occurred within one week of receiving it. We have talked to 3D systems and they did work with us when the machine was under warranty for the first year but I feel they never addressed the actual problem. We have spent thousands of dollars on core material and binder to have much of it wasted.

[LayerMade_1]

You should be using the 3d systems fourm instead of this hub. You need to share your problems with other users of this machine. If it was a design flaw why are there so many service bureaus using that same machine and not having problems… service contract is the key… also never buy a new machine from 3d the first year it is out. They release machines early when they haven’t figured them out 100%… been doing this for 17 years

[Kortehgehn]

I’m not sure, there is no activity about these on the 3DS forums and I have yet to meet another owner of one. In fact the response from owners I have gotten here is the best I have gotten so far. I really don’t think there are that many of these printers out there. I have dealt with so many engineering problems and technical glitches that I can’t imagine there are that many in use otherwise these problems would have come to light sooner. We have gotten binder cartridges with RFID tags installed backwards, the latest version of our software still lists magenta binder as yellow and vice versa, the suction tubes on the cleaning station have a tendency to fall off if the printer is moved causing binder to leak out inside the printer. On another note, so far no service technician, 3D Systems or otherwise can tell me what the second black push-button is for on the printers control panel. Every time a service technician looks at our printer, it seems like it is the first one they have ever seen, and I often know more about it then they do.

[Kreasi3D]

Hi, can you describe what you mean by overflow? We have had issues with our printer since day 1 (August 2014). It’s an on going problem that hasn’t been fixed. Biggest disappointment is the poor color contrast, despite having higher resolution than a ProJet 660 (600x600 dpi VS 600x540 dpi). On paper, PJ4500 should have better image quality than the PJ660 even without the black color. Our biggest issue is binder leakage. If you leave the print head stationary, in less than 1 minute, binder droplets appear and drops on to the platform. We have had various parts replaced but there is still no fix. Our distributor now comes in regularly once every 3 days to fix the printer.

[Awesome3d]

Hello Edward,

I know this is an old post for you, I hope your problem is solved now. I’ve got a projet3500 and am having problems with the printer not putting material down in the right place when building large parts. They replaced the head and it should be working now.

I just wanted to know, if you don’t mind me asking, how you got your problem solved?

Many thanks.

Matt

[Scott_28]

Hi, we have been using a 4500 since 2014 and have also had similar problems. In fact, the various comments made for interesting reading as we sat and went “yup”, “been there”, “done that”. It seems this machine has several mechanical issues. We have had the same overfill and block the vacuum issue. This seems to have been resolved with a recent firmware which is a bit stricter about entyping the overflows. The failure itself eventually caused the cleaning station to block and welded the head to itself at one point. We suspect this caused the head to be damaged as we have been struggling with alignment ever since. Since then, we have had a bearing go on the fast axis, and regular Clear Binder low failures. And lately, we have had the issue of powder overspilling onto the bed which we have narrowed down to a failed seal on the feeder hopper. We are waiting for that part but in the mean time, we have had yet another problem with the slow axis this time. It seems to hit the cover which moves to allow powder to spill out, but we are not sure why. Basically, we are receiving a very high failure rate and a lot of downtime. I realise this is an older thread, but wondered if you could advise if you have had any resolution or if the printer is behaving better for you now? Also, can you put a figure on the failure rate? Is it in the 50% range or worse?

[Scott_28]

Hi, we are also in this position although we have not contacted any legal firms and are at all costs, trying to avoid a dispute. Did your case ever move forward or was the issue resolved in any way?

[3dprintingstud]

We recently purchased a 4500 and have just started using it. Given the general consensus is that the machine is flawed, my thought is that paying thousands of dollars for 3D Systems provided powder and binder is a waste of money as it doesn’t provide any guarantee of reliability or quality. We’ve been running Projet and ZCorp machines for 8 years with after market powders and binders and have saved about 50%. If we have any problems we generally fix them ourselves as our own tech’s tend to know more than the 3D Systems trained engineers. My question is - does anyone know of any producers of after market powders/binders for the 4500 or is anyone attempting to reverse engineer them?

[Accucode3D]

Unfortunately I don’t cover the New England area. Part of the problem is the 4500 is fairly new and requires a special training course for a technician after they complete a course on the Projet 3500 multijet printers. Dealers will not send a tech for training if they haven’t sold a 4500 so there are not many certified technicians available. One is a 5 day course and the 4500 is another 3 or 4 days of training. Have you talked to anyone at 3D Systems directly about the trouble you’ve had since it was new? If not, I would send a summary of all the problems

[Francisco_Ma_1]

Same thing with our 4500 there is no way to get good service or any support for this printer anyone that can give any advise?